Debt Relief Experts
Would you pay someone a 40% surcharge to refer you to a dentist? A doctor? How about to a lawyer?
Probably not.
With that same logic, you should never pay someone to refer you to a consumer proposal administrator. Yet sadly, many people are being tricked into doing just that.
This is the story of someone who was almost trapped into paying an extra $5,853.40 in unnecessary fees to file a consumer proposal.
We recently received an email from an individual, whose name we have removed from this information for privacy purposes, asking what seemed like a relatively simple question:
Please advise if I should proceed with this agreement and if you’ll be willing to help by matching the monthly payments as per below.
You might think that this person was comparing services across different Licensed Insolvency Trustees. I have no objection to that. If you are not comfortable with the trustee you see for consumer proposal advice then, by all means, talk with another Licensed Insolvency Trustee.
However, that’s not what happened here. This was someone who contacted a national debt consulting agency, Consumer Debtor Protection Services, for debt help.
There are so many glaring concerns with the agreement this individual was asked to sign I hardly know where to start. However, I will attempt to review them as best I can. If you’d like to read the full agreement, it appears at the end of this post.
First the totally unnecessary, extra fees
CDPS is charging the debtor an additional $5,853, including HST, for their services. Based on this scenario, the debtor will be proposing to pay his creditors $14,940.65 over 5 years to settle his debts. This means he is paying an additional fee amounting to 40% of his consumer proposal payments.
This fee is payable on or before the ‘commencement date’ or can be paid via monthly pre-authorized payments.
In other words, the debtor must pay for the services of the debt consultant before their consumer proposal is filed with the government. In fact, it must be paid before they even meet with a Licensed Insolvency Trustee, the only person who can file the proposal.
Based on our experience, we know that many people who work with an unlicensed ‘consumer proposal consultant’ take out cash advances on their credit cards, or take out a payday loan to speed up the process. If they pay via monthly installments they must wait to file their proposal, which can lead to further complications. This leads me to…
No, creditor calls won’t stop no matter what the agreement says
Under services, CDPs says they will ‘contact Your creditors to obtain balances of Your debts to them’. They will inform your creditors that you have ‘commenced the proposal process’ and ‘most creditor calls should stop at this point’.
The agreement also recommends that they cancel all pre-authorized payments and post-dated cheques to existing creditors. They also ‘suggest’ that, while the ‘proposal process is ongoing’, the debtor suspend any payments to their creditors.
To be clear, starting the process is not filing a consumer proposal. The protection provided by the stay of proceedings does not begin until a proposal is legally filed with the government, by a Licensed Insolvency Trustee.
In our experience, these calls won’t stop. In fact, if you stop making payments, your creditors will continue to pursue all collection options, including a wage garnishment, until they receive a copy of your signed and filed proposal documents from the trustee. If someone is on the monthly payment plan with a debt consultant, this may not happen for months during which time the individual still struggles to make minimum payments or stops making payments and deals with the threat of collection.
The agreement even advises clients to contact them immediately if their creditors take any legal action against them, which is an acknowledgment that the unfortunate debtor is still at risk of creditor actions.
Debt consultants do not negotiate with your creditors
At least here they are honest. They even say in their agreement “We do not perform any direct debt negotiation, debt reduction, debt consolidation or debt settlement on Your behalf with Your creditors. We also do not do any activities relating to a debt repayment agreement with Your creditors or relating to obtaining credit from a creditor.”
Why are they this transparent? Because provincial governments have established laws prohibiting companies from charging up-front fees for debt settlement services.
However, as we’ve said before, this just means that the consultants changed the way they worked. Sadly, offering someone consumer proposal representation to help them file a consumer proposal has become a massive industry in Canada.
It’s not a better deal
To quote their website:
Consumer Debtor Protection of Canada Ltd is a firm which offers consumer proposal representation services.
One of the selling points agencies like CDPS use to persuade people to work with them is that they get a debtor a better deal than they can achieve because they work for the debtor, not the creditor.
Again, in our experience, this is not true.
In this case, based on the limited information provided, the debtor would make surplus income payments totaling approximately $11,500 if he were to file bankruptcy. A proposal needs to offer a little more than the creditors would expect to receive in a bankruptcy. So, a proposal for $14,950 or 30 cents on the dollar seems reasonable if not marginally on the high side. Based on this limited information, any Licensed Insolvency Trustee would set up a proposal for this amount, without the up-front fee. Depending on the creditors involved, they may even recommend a lower offer.
In most cases we have seen, debt consultants do not arrange a better deal with the creditors that the person could have achieved by working directly with an LIT. When you factor in the substantial additional fees, they are in fact paying more.
Look, they offer a guarantee
For what is it worth, they guarantee to ‘assist You to prepare a proposal that is approved by Your Creditors”.
CDPS even offers a refund “If Your creditors reject Your proposal that We have assisted You with preparing”.
In our experience, most proposals, if reasonable, are accepted by creditors. At Hoyes, Michalos we have a 99% proposal acceptance rate. This is because creditors know the alternative – the individual will likely file bankruptcy. So, it is unlikely, that the refund happens because a proposal is rejected.
But what if the whole process fails. What if the debtor files elsewhere? The debtor is sadly out his fee.
We have had many people contact us while in the middle of one of these proposal processes because they found themselves facing very angry creditors and in worse financial shape. If they are on a payment plan, we can file a proposal right away & save them future fees. But what if they’ve paid up front and they don’t complete the process? Unfortunately, their money is lost. (To be clear, Hoyes Michalos does not work with these types of debt consultants.)
The exact opposite of customized, personalized, local advice
My last, but by far not least objection, is that these services are conducted primarily online and over the phone. The proposal ‘deal’ as presented is not yet based on full information and may change.
The debtor is responsible for sending beneficial documentation and information via an online portal after the agreement for services is signed.
Their own website may list “Cities We Service” across Canada, but the only address on the website is in Woodbridge, Ontario.
This same agreement was sent via email and is considered valid if signed digitally. No in-person consultation conducted that we can tell. While the debtor will be required to meet personally with a Licensed Insolvency Trustee (a regulatory requirement for all trustees), this will be organized by but has nothing to do with the payment for the services provided. In fact, the debtor, despite paying for all this work, is free to choose another trustee if they so wish.
Please stop paying someone for consumer proposal advice
Across Canada, Licensed Insolvency Trustees offer free consultations. If you need to talk with us more than once, every follow-up consultation is also free. During this process, we conduct a full, in-person, debt assessment including collecting information about your income, your assets, and what you owe to your creditors. If we need additional information, you don’t sign anything until all material is already obtained and your proposal to creditor documents are prepared for filing. At Hoyes, Michalos you make no payments until your proposal is legally filed with the government, giving the debtor full creditor protection.
I can only ask that people review who they are working with. Ask if they are a Licensed Insolvency Trustee. (As an aside, debt consultants know this question so, they say things like “CDPC is licensed by the Ontario Government’s Ontario Ministry of Government and Consumer Services. Our registration number is 4707240.”) Make sure the person you are working with to discuss a proposal is licensed by the government to file consumer proposals. If you are not sure, look their name or firm up on the Government of Canada website listing of Licensed Insolvency Trustees.
And, never pay someone for consumer proposal advice.
In this case, I’m happy to say we contacted the individual (who was not a resident of Ontario) and let them know they can arrange a deal directly with a trustee, likely for the same amount, without paying the $5800. They thanked us for saving them money and let us know they’d talk with a local trustee directly.
ACTUAL AGREEMENT*
*Edited to remove identifying personal information
Please advise if I should proceed with this agreement and if you’ll be willing to help by matching the monthly payments as per below.
SUITE 104, 7 DIRECTOR COURT, WOODBRIDGE, ON L4L 4S5
TEL 905-482-0334 FAX 905-482-0336 EMAIL INFO@CDPCL.COM
Page 1 of 9
CDPC CLIENT AGREEMENT
COMMENCEMENT DATE: 17/09/2018
CDPC CLIENT NUMBER: XXXXXX
CDPC CLIENT NAME: Debtor name (“You”)
CDPC CLIENT REPRESENTATIVE: Debt consultant
This Client Agreement (“Agreement”) between Consumer Debtor Protection of Canada Ltd. (“CDPC”, “Us”, “We”) and You sets out all the services which We will perform for You and on Your behalf, beginning on the date set forth above (“Commencement Date”).
SUMMARY OF INFORMATION, ASSESSMENT AND ESTIMATE OF PROPOSAL
Number of Dependents: 1
Monthly Net Income: $3250
Total Unsecured Debt: $49802.19
Home Value: $0
Mortgage Amount: $0
Average Interest Rate: 20%
Monthly Interest: $830.04
Annual Interest: $9960.44
Interest Compounded over Term of Proposal: $74121.6
Interest and Principal over Term of Proposal: $123923.79
Total Savings with CDPC: $108983.13
You are eligible for an approximate proposal of $249.01 per month for a total of 60 months.
This amounts to a total payment in respect of all Your unsecured debt of $14940.65. These arrangements are completely interest free and open as to term. You are entitled to accelerate Your payments at any time to complete Your proposal more rapidly.
You will need to submit information and documents during the term of the Agreement by accessing an online portal. We will provide You with access information for Your portal.
OUR SERVICES: Once You sign the Agreement, We will contact Your creditors to obtain balances of Your debts to them. We will inform Your creditors that You have commenced the proposal process and most creditor calls should stop at that point. Where permitted by law, We will insist that Your creditors communicate with You only in writing. We will collect and organize Your information and help You prepare the materials to present to a Proposal Administrator. Although We will submit the materials on Your behalf and will recommend an Administrator, the final choice of Administrator is Yours. The Administrator is appointed by the federal government. The Administrator will receive the proposal package and submit Your proposal to Your creditors who will approve or reject the proposal. Some of what is required from You is set out in Schedule “A”.
Debt consultant
Debtor name
Client number
SUITE 104, 7 DIRECTOR COURT, WOODBRIDGE, ON L4L 4S5
TEL 905-482-0334 FAX 905-482-0336 EMAIL INFO@CDPCL.COM
Page 2 of 9
As needed, We also will assist You with rebuilding Your credit and personal budgeting and We will provide referrals for appraisers, mortgage brokers and others for specialized loans. We will take reasonable steps as are reasonable to amend Your credit bureau information in accordance with any applicable legislation dealing with credit reporting activities. We will attend at creditors’ meetings on Your behalf if needed and We will arrange for legal representation for You for any court claims relating to Your debt and only if the claim commences after the Commencement Date. These are all the services we provide to You and We do not perform any direct debt negotiation, debt reduction, debt consolidation or debt settlement on Your behalf with Your creditors. We also do not do any activities relating to a debt repayment agreement with Your creditors or relating to obtaining credit from a creditor.
GUARANTEE: As between you and Us in this Agreement, We guarantee that We will assist You to prepare a proposal that is approved by Your creditors.
You still remain responsible for Your debts associated with any outstanding student loans where the last day of studies was less than seven years from the commencement of this Agreement.
CONFIDENTIALITY: All Your information will be kept strictly confidential by Us and We abide strictly by all applicable privacy laws. You hereby expressly consent to Our collection, use and disclosure of Your personal and confidential information to enable Us to provide You with Our services.
FEE FOR SERVICE:You agree to pay Us the sum of $5180.00 ($5853.40) plus applicable GST/HST (GST/HST No. xxxxxxxxxxxxx) (the “Fee”) for our services. The Fee will be paid on or before the Commencement Date or as set out in the attached Pre-Authorized Debit and Payment Schedule agreement (“PADAPS”) (and You agree that if You do not execute the PADAPS, You will nevertheless be bound by the payment schedule listed there). If Your creditors reject Your proposal that We have assisted You with preparing, we will refund all of Your Fee. We will provide this refund within 30 days of You executing a full and final release in Our favour.
DISHONOURED PAYMENTS:We are allowed to charge You up to $100.00 for any dishonoured payment of the Fee.
COMPLAINTS AND RESOLUTION OF COMPLAINTS:If You have a complaint about our services, We ask that You notify us by email with sufficient details for Us to address the complaint. We will respond to You within two (2) business days. At that time, We will let You know if the complaint is valid (and will provide You a full explanation if We believe it is not) and the steps We will take to address the complaint. We are committed to ensuring Your experience with Us is a positive one.
CLIENT BREACH AND TERMINATION: You will be in breach of Your obligations under the Agreement (each a “Client Breach”) if:
(i) You do not provide Us with timely, accurate, complete or consistent information or updates to information, especially as to your debts or income, as We may request of You; (ii) Your financial status materially changes for any reason, including a sale of Your property or assets;
(iii) You fail to pay your Fee when due; or
(iv) You do not attend at the offices of the Administrator when scheduled, including if You choose to abandon or discontinue the process and receipt of Our services.
If You commit a Client Breach, We will not be required to refund any of Your Fees if Your proposal is rejected and We may also terminate the Agreement and retain all of the Fee as liquidated damages and not as penalty. We shall also be immediately fully and finally released from all liability to You.
If there is no Client Breach, the Agreement will terminate once our services to You are complete.
SUITE 104, 7 DIRECTOR COURT, WOODBRIDGE, ON L4L 4S5
TEL 905-482-0334 FAX 905-482-0336 EMAIL INFO@CDPCL.COM
Page 3 of 9
LIABILITY OF CDPC:In the event We materially breach this Agreement and You have not committed a Client Breach, We shall be liable to You for any resulting damages, however those damages will never exceed the total amount of the Fee.
GENERAL PROVISIONS: This Agreement, together with all Schedules and appendices, is the entire Agreement between You and Us and may not be changed except by both of us in writing. You acknowledge that our services do not relieve You of the responsibility to pay Your legally outstanding debts to Your creditors. All of Our services will be provided out of Our offices at 7 Director Court, Unit #104, Woodbridge, Ontario, L4L 4S5.
This Agreement will be governed by the laws of the Province of Ontario. A digitally-executed copy of the Agreement will be held to be an original copy of the Agreement.
Any notice to be given by You or Us will be effectively given if sent by registered mail, email or other similar means of electronic communications, addressed in the case of notice to Us at the address appearing on the
bottom of each page of the Agreement, and in the case of notice to You at the address You provide to Us. You or We may change the address for notice upon notifying the other.
You acknowledge that You should obtain independent legal advice with respect to this Agreement. You have either obtained such independent legal advice or has waived Your right to do so.
SPECIAL PROVISIONS ONLY FOR CLIENTS OWNING REAL PROPERTY
In the event You own real property of any kind, an additional charge of one hundred and fifty dollars ($150.00) (the “Opinion Fee”) shall be payable to Us. We shall pay the Opinion Fee to a qualified third party for the purpose of obtaining a letter of opinion on any such real property. The Opinion Fee must be paid by You prior to the presentation of a proposal package to a proposal administrator.
EXECUTION
The parties hereto execute this Agreement as at the date indicated below and as evidenced by their respective
signatures hereto:
CDPC CLIENT # XXXXXX
___________________________ __________________
CDPC CLIENT SIGNATURE DATE
By executing this document with your digital signature, you hereby consent to the use of, and acknowledge the reliance by Consumer Debtor Protection of Canada Ltd. on, your digital signature. You agree that, pursuant to
Section 11(1) of the Electronic Commerce Act, 2000 (Ontario), the legal requirement for signature of the document is satisfied with your digital signature hereto.
CONSUMER DEBTOR PROTECTION OF CANADA LTD.
______________________
Per:
17/09/2018
Debt Consultant Name
Client Number
SUITE 104, 7 DIRECTOR COURT, WOODBRIDGE, ON L4L 4S5
TEL 905-482-0334 FAX 905-482-0336 EMAIL INFO@CDPCL.COM
Page 4 of 9
SCHEDULE A – Portal and Documents
In addition to the Agreement and the forms attached hereto, you will also be required to complete the Profile, Insolvency App and Budget forms. These can be completed through the online portal, which will be activated upon our receipt of an executed version of the Agreement. You will receive log-in instructions via email. The list of required documents is provided below. These can be uploaded through the internet portal (“Upload a Document”) or faxed to us at 1-888-483-0336. Please ensure that your client number appears on all faxed correspondence.
– Copy of Social Insurance Number/Social Security Number
– Copy of one piece of photo identification (not health card) and an additional piece of
identification
– Tax information—last tax return filed/last tax assessment received
– Copies of your two most recent pay stubs or other payment information
– All pertinent documentation and statements with respect to stocks, bonds, RRSP, RRIF
or RESP accounts
– Copies of any life insurance policies (cash surrender value not exempt)
– Copies of all vehicle registrations and any outstanding loan/lien statements
– Copy of any mortgage statement, where applicable
– Electronic Funds Transfer form (attached to Agreement) for fee payment
– Details regarding any matrimonial or child support payments, if applicable
– Details regarding any pension, deferred profit sharing plan or similar plan payments, if applicable
– Details regarding any death benefit payment or ongoing payments received from a company or organization on behalf of a deceased spouse, if applicable
– Details of any payments to you under any trust arrangement (e.g. family trust) or as a beneficiary from the ongoing administration of a last will and testament, if applicable
– Details of any worker’s compensation or similar payments to you, if applicable
– Details of any accident benefit payments to you, if applicable
– Details of any welfare, unemployment insurance or similar payments to you, if applicable
– Details of any joint bank accounts you may own.
Should you receive any calls from any of your creditors, please report them through the “Online Call Log” in the online portal.
SUITE 104, 7 DIRECTOR COURT, WOODBRIDGE, ON L4L 4S5
TEL 905-482-0334 FAX 905-482-0336 EMAIL INFO@CDPCL.COM
Page 5 of 9
Pre-Authorized Debit (PAD) and Payment Schedule Agreement
Pursuant to my obligation to pay the Fee to CDPC contemplated by my Client Agreement with CDPC, I hereby agree to the terms of this Pre-Authorized Debit and Alternate Payment Schedule Agreement and authorize CDPC to debit my bank account: (attach VOID cheque or complete account information below).
The debit will be expected to be processed to CDPC’s account on the following dates, and corresponding amounts:
# Installments Year Month Day Frequency Amount
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
I may revoke my authorization any time, subject to providing five (5) days written notice to CDPC at the address on the bottom of this agreement.
To obtain a sample cancellation form, or for more information on my right to cancel a PAD Agreement, I may contact my financial institution or visit www.cdnpay.ca. Such revocation in no way shall be taken to be a waiver of my obligation to pay the Fee. In the event any pre-authorized debit to be received by CDPC from me at the time specified in this agreement is not received due to my insufficient funds, I will immediately make arrangements to provide this outstanding payment as soon as possible, and agree to pay any applicable Processing Fee and, failing provision of these amounts, I authorize CDPC to debit my account for such outstanding amounts irrespective of any schedule of other payments referred to above and this shall serve as authorization to my financial institution to honour any such request for funds from CDPC. I have certain recourse rights if any debit does not comply with this agreement. For example, I have the right to receive reimbursement for any debit that is not authorized or is not consistent with this PAD Agreement. To obtain more information on my recourse rights, I may contact my financial institution or visit www.cdnpay.ca.
Client Signature: ____________________________
By executing this document with your digital signature, you hereby consent to the use of, and acknowledge the reliance by Consumer Debtor Protection of Canada Ltd. on, your digital signature. You agree that, pursuant to Section 11(1) of the Electronic Commerce Act, 2000 (Ontario), the legal requirement for signature of the document is satisfied with your digital signature hereto.
SUITE 104, 7 DIRECTOR COURT, WOODBRIDGE, ON L4L 4S5
TEL 905-482-0334 FAX 905-482-0336 EMAIL INFO@CDPCL.COM
Page 6 of 9
Date:
CONSENT
CDPC CLIENT NAME: Debtor name
CDPC CLIENT#: XXXXXX
I am currently going through a period of financial difficulty and am taking active steps to address and manage my indebtedness. To this end, I wish to advise you that I, Debtor Name, have selected Consumer Debtor Protection of Canada Ltd. (“CDPC”), as my agent to deal with all communications, correspondence and the collection of information with respect to any and all of my financial obligations and I also consider CDPC to be one of my legal advisors in this respect. I request that any addressee or recipient of this Consent direct their communications to CDPC exclusively once they receive this consent. I hereby request that any addressee or recipient of this Consent hereafter contact me only in writing and that they direct such written correspondence to CDPC who will be in the best position to advise you of the progress and steps I am taking in respect of the handling and management of my indebtedness.
I freely and fully authorize any employer, former employer, landlord, school, university, any bank, caisse populaire, finance company, credit union, mortgage broker, condominium corporation, hydro company, telephone company, cable and/or internet provider or any other company with whom I deal on a credit basis, as well as any organization, municipality, police department, provincial or federal government ministry, institution or department, Canada Revenue Agency, social services, WSIB, Revenue Quebec, CSST, or any insurance company who has information about me, and to whom a signed or a copy of this authorization is delivered, to furnish any information, reports, or copies of records which may be requested by CDPC, or its accredited representatives.
I agree that I will have no cause of action against any person or institution who may provide information in compliance with this authorization.
Dated this _______ day of ____________, _____
________________________________________
CDPC CLIENT Signature
Client’s signature hereto is evidence of consent to use a digital signature and the reliance thereon by any creditor.
Under Section 11(1) of the Electronic Commerce Act, 2000 (Ontario), the legal requirement for signature of the document is satisfied with Client’s digital signature hereto.
17/09/2018
2018 September 17th
Debtor name
Client number
Debtor name
SUITE 104, 7 DIRECTOR COURT, WOODBRIDGE, ON L4L 4S5
TEL 905-482-0334 FAX 905-482-0336 EMAIL INFO@CDPCL.COM
Page 7 of 9
Creditor Information
Please provide us with your last creditor statements and/or letters if available, and list all creditors and account information as completely as to the best of your knowledge.
Creditor Product Account Number Balance Owing
Creditor #1 info
Creditor #2 info
SUITE 104, 7 DIRECTOR COURT, WOODBRIDGE, ON L4L 4S5
TEL 905-482-0334 FAX 905-482-0336 EMAIL INFO@CDPCL.COM
Page 8 of 9
IMPORTANT INFORMATION
– Should you have any accounts that are being included in this program and you bank with the same institutions, do not deposit any funds into these accounts. The banks can garnish funds that remain in their institution.
Please follow these directions:
– Open a new chequing account right away, and change all automatic deposits into this bank account (payroll, government deposits, etc.). Ensure that the new account you are opening is with an institution with which you have no other financial products. For example, if you have included a credit card, or a loan from a certain bank, DO NOT keep funds in an account at that bank.
– Cancel all pre-authorized chequing, and post-dated cheque plans to creditors that are included in this program. If any cheque has gone NSF to a creditor in the past six months, put a stop payment on it as well.
– Although not mandatory, it is our suggestion that, while the proposal process is ongoing, you suspend any additional payments to the creditors without prior written instructions from CDPC.
Your Responsibilities.
– DO keep up with your payments on all secured loans, unless special arrangements have been made with the assistance of CDPC.
– DO keep up your payments to all utilities and necessities. (rent, hydro, telephone, etc.)
– DO NOT discuss your account with any creditor. Should you receive a call from any creditor, advise them that you are being represented by us, give them our telephone number, and that is it. Should you receive repeated calls from any creditor, let us know.
We will provide you with further information regarding ethical and unethical collection practices.
– DO NOT apply for any credit, or use any of the credit accounts that form part of the proposal process, as doing so without the consultation of CDPC may impede or annul the whole proposal process.
– DO inform us immediately if a creditor has taken legal action against you (your Defense is included in your fee, if the creditor has commenced legal action after you have joined up with us, and we will take the necessary steps to ensure you are represented).
– DO NOT be concerned about continuing to receive statements from your creditors. Mail is ok, telephone calls are not.
– DO inform us right away, if a creditor has placed your account in collections, or have taken legal action, so we can help you to file a timely defense, or send the appropriate documents. We are here to deal with all these burdens.
SUITE 104, 7 DIRECTOR COURT, WOODBRIDGE, ON L4L 4S5
TEL 905-482-0334 FAX 905-482-0336 EMAIL INFO@CDPCL.COM
Page 9 of 9
Date:
CONSENT RE MESSAGES
CDPC CLIENT NAME: Debtor name
CDPC CLIENT#: ######
I agree do not agree That CDPC and its representatives may contact me via email or text message and that CDPC may contact me for the purpose of advising me of certain other products or services it may offer which may be of interest to me.
In the event I agree, I understand that I may cease to receive such messages at any time by contacting CDPC in writing and requesting that I be unsubscribed from receiving any commercial electronic messages. I understand that doing so may negatively impact the services that CDPC provides to me.
________________________________________
CDPC CLIENT Signature
Client’s signature hereto is evidence of consent to use a digital signature and the reliance thereon by any creditor.
Under Section 11(1) of the Electronic Commerce Act, 2000 (Ontario), the legal requirement for signature of the document is satisfied with Client’s digital signature hereto.
17/09/2018
Client number
Debtor name
